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SimpleMan

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PostSubject: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:36 pm

The big idea is a gear box which turns reciprocating motion into rotation. This is an idea I had in the early 1980’s, inspired by an old metal bender I ran in a machine shop to put hooks on anchor bolts. The plan was and still is, to use a weight on a chain to drive a series of gears, like those of a pendulum clock. But not a pendulum, it would be more like a metronome. The shaft which holds the inverted pendulum would drive the gearbox which in turn will drive a generator. The idea is to create an earth friendly flow of electricity for a twenty four hour period on a single winding. No sun or wind needed, gravity does the work. I hope to get back to this in the near future.

The second and smaller idea is the model on the right. It is a wind turbine with movable blades. I actually built a full size version of this. The idea is, as the blades that are hinged to be opened by the wind flair out to catch more wind, the blades on the opposite side are blown closed to lower wind resistance. With my favorite twelve blade system it worked very well, but the clatter was unbearable. I tried many various methods to quiet the thing down; nothing worked well and only added weight which made it less effective. I have a few ideas for a revamp but this one will sit on the back burner for a while.

Last but not least is the twelve fixed blade VAWT model, originally built to prove the ease of creating a magnetic bearing in a vertical axis wind turbine by using a pair of large speaker magnets to repel each other. I shared this with a member of a group of people who help green energy business’s get started. A few months had passed when I noticed someone was trying to patent the idea. They didn’t use the blade design, just the opposing magnetic fields. I’m not sure if it was the same guy or group, but it’s the last time I share something like that with a single person unless I’m trying to patent something myself. As for turbine itself, I’m moving forward with it and modifying as needed while I learn from it.
I have been called a Mad Scientist by a friend, but I think myself to be a tinkerer, or maybe a Mad Tinkerer. LOL


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SimpleMan

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:13 pm

Using the shaft and PMA from my first very noisy turbine attempt I scaled up the fixed blade model and gave it a shot. With this test I learned my blades are too short, but to make the blades longer I need the help of a machine.


A couple hundred bucks spent at Harbor Freight got me one of these.

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SimpleMan

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:25 pm

The long awaited but not so anticipated second installment of Apples to Apples


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SilentDeath001

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:52 pm

Really nice work on testing between the two pma's. I have a VAWT still going thru testing but I made my own rotors and stator. have you thought about building your own rotors and stator? reason I ask is this,, most guys that make there own have 3 coils per phase. a buddy of mine in Barstow built his and used 4 coils per phase. that means it reaches cut in speed with much slower air speed. and you can build the coils to match with your wind speed. your wing set up works great in low wind speed which should work really well with a 4 coil per phase set up. you would only need one or two of them since I have the one VAWT in a 20 to 31 mph wind it produced 27.9amps with only 3 coils per phase at 24 volts. could you imagine what I would of got with 4 coils per phase? also you might want to consider putting a single upper arm support that comes from on top the vawt shaft then drops back down to the frame, which would ease the stress on the single bearing. if you want some help on the home made stator and magnet rotors let me know, I would be glad to help. Great Job! SD.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:27 am

Hey Simple! I started making the rotors and coils for this next wind generator. it is very small so a similar set up would work very well with your vawt. I have 3 coils made so far, only 6 more to make. The Coils are 100 wraps of #15magnet wire I got thru ebay, a company called Essex is the best I have found price wise and speed of shipping. they are really good. Anyway, ill try and make some videos showing the steps to make one. its pretty easy, just takes time.
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SimpleMan

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:11 pm

I am planning to build my own rotors and stators at some point, but first I’d like to perfect a bolt on version of the turbine itself. This way maybe I can market the thing. The first design I came up with had blades that opened toward the wind when the wind caught it then closed on the opposite side to lower wind resistance. It worked fairly well, but was as noisy as someone playing the tune “Wipe-out” on a drum set made entirely from metal trashcan lids. I tried adding pads and springs and all kinds of things to quiet the thing down. Eventually I gave up on that one, but I learned a lot before I did. This first one was extremely heavy for its size, which made the whole thing top heavy. For this reason I did place a half inch diameter stainless steel spike on the top center of the shaft to accommodate a bearing to be held in the center of a three legged frame. I also played with the idea of using opposing magnetic fields to remove the weight of the turbine from the bearings. But after that learning experience I went in a completely opposite direction attempting to build an ultralight 12 bladed version which would allow the wind to pass through instead of around, thus the development of the backward wing designed blades. Planes can’t fly backward and the tail of a windmill will always points toward the wind from behind the turbine. That’s why I think this design works; the wing in front tries to flip to the back while moving the next one to the front and so on and so on.  I’ve also kept this one very light. Without the center shaft attached my turbine weighs just under 12 pounds according to my bathroom scales, and with its small profile of 31”inch diameter and the height of just 36”inches, I don’t see a need for extra support on the top in my location. However if I was using it in an area where higher sustained wind speeds were the norm, extra support might be required and can be easily fastened into the center tube of the turbine. The turbines themselves could come off an assembly line, but the center tube must be custom made to fit the PMA, PMG or whatever generator it is intended to be used with it. The nut should be a perfect fit as this would be the weak spot.

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As for the rotor and stator idea, I’ve been looking at everything available but I don’t have any solid ideas on it yet. I do like the idea of having more than one layer. Stators would be held together on the outside by a steel frame, while the rotors would be mounted on a keyed stainless steel shaft. This way the rotors can be offset from each other to diminish any cogging. The smoother it runs the faster it runs. So yes, any videos, knowledge or input on this subject is greatly appreciated.
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SilentDeath001

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:49 am

it would be easy to make a adapter that threads onto the shaft threads. just take a nut that fits the thread pattern, and turn a flat disk on a metal lathe and mount/weld the nut to the plate. on the plate you will have a 4 bolt pattern that will connect each of the rotors and the stator floats freely between the rotors. ill try to make a video of how I did that with my VAWT but it connects both of the rotors directly to the wings. there is a separate support with adjustment for the stator. I know for sure that home made stators give out a lot more power then the freedom II I have. a friend of mine in Barstow built his own wind generator and he has reached over 85amps output in less then 35mph winds with 4 coils per phase. I did finish making all 9 coils the other evening. and the last 4 magnets I need should be delivered Monday. I am only using 1 inch dia x 1/2 thick 49pound pull magnets. these rotors are very small 7 7/8inch dia.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:01 am

I'm looking forward to seeing that, thanks.
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SilentDeath001

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:28 am

ok, here is part one, some easy to follow tips when designing the rotor and stators. some safety issues when working with both of the rotors. you never want these rotors to slam together, use Jack bolts!! anyway, here are some helpful tips. ill make a video on how to make and pour a stator later on. enjoy.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:53 pm

That's some good stuff SD. I've subscribed to your YouTube channel so I'll be able to get your latest videos right off the press, and of course I can check out your previous vids as well.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:07 pm

I am glad to help out. its pretty simple once you have built one set up. Lots of safety issues you need to know about before you begin to handle those magnets. keep all metal tools far away and only work on one rotor at a time and never get the two rotors close together unless your installing them. the following video,(one the rain stops here lol) will show how to make the stator casting mold and also how I encapsulate the magnets on the rotors also. a lot of guys attach the magnets to the rotors with crazy glue or the two part epoxy which works ok but weather breaks that glue down over time so I also use the same fiberglass solution that I make the stator with and pour that around the magnets, to lock them in place. I do not pour over the top of the magnets, just up to the top edge. I have used the fiber glass solution you can get at home depot which recommends 10 drops per ounce I think, you do not want to use that many drops per ounce. it heats up really bad and cures in seconds, and that heat can distort the stator shape even in the mold. also that heat can effect how strong the magnets stay. so I would use 5 or 6 drops per ounce and let is cure up slower. ill show that in the next video.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:07 am

This is the Stealth VAWT build video. I intended this to be the beginning of Apples to Apples Part 2, but I felt the video was too long as it was. I'm not sure if it was even necessary to film it but I did and here it is. I hope you enjoy it.


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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:18 pm

Hey, Merry Christmas there buddy! nice production video on what it takes to make those blades. I got one idea for you. instead of using the wire to secure the gap between blades, see the thickness or width of the metal on top of the blades where you connect the wire. cut strips of the same metal to match the width so each one will be the same length and use the screws to attach each one to the next blade. that will give you a stronger hold in high winds then the wire. the next thing ill see what we can do to design a rotor and stator set up to get some really good power out of your set up. we just need to decide if you want the rotor set up on top or on the bottom. two 16inch rotors will give you a set up that will have 4 coils per phase, and if we use 1 inch wide x 2 inch long x 1/2 thick 72 pound pull magnets that will have 16 magnets on each rotor, and that would be one output monster of a set up. if you look back at one of my videos where I made the vawt rotors, that is the size magnet I am talking about. standard rule of thumb for each magnet if its one inch wide, the number of magnets used gives you the dia of the rotor, so 16 magnets = 16inch dia. that leaves you making about a 18 to 19 inch dia stator which will let you make some seriously large coils. even in a low rotation speed you would have good power for 12 volt system, higher winds, 24 volts no problem, you would end up using a controller like a outback or midnite that changes the higher voltage back down to what ever your batteries want.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:20 pm

You my friend have been one busy fellow. Lots of videos to go through to find those you are talking about, but I found them. And they have answered a question I have had for some time. I have often wondered how much torque is required to start turning one of those and how free it turns. Apparently it's not much, and continues to turn easily. I realize a big part of that is the bearings but I was afraid there might some cogging. That's very nice, I like it. I have a different blade design in mind for a suspended turbine which might also work well with an axial flux style generator.
As for the wire idea on my turbines, because there are 12 blades, all it takes is one minor screw-up to prevent an accurate and equal distance between each of the blades. A wire gives me some flexibility which allows me some human error. But as I acquire more tools and skills it should result in more precision. I can see bolting on something similar to a bicycle spoke with eyes on each end, I can make these once the other parts are made more precisely.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:59 am

Merry Christmas !

I really like your blades.

I have been working with a design, but with little success.

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The Current Measurements...

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I am using a rugged generator... All stainless shaft with the strong bearings at the shaft and at the base. It does make good amps when under load. Just need a blade set up that is not to wide, so I can have a pair on the top aft of the boat.

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Alan
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SimpleMan

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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:57 am

Sorry its taken me a while to answer, I didn't realize you had commented. There are so many variables in building an efficient VAWT it can make one crazy. I like the center mounting plate of the turbine. I also like the smaller diameter of it, the tighter the diameter the faster it can turn if it creates enough torque to rotate the drive-shaft. I like the length of the blades as well and would do the same with mine if I could afford a longer sheet metal brake. Now it's just my opinion but I see a couple things that I would change. I think you have too many blades for a turbine of that diameter. They almost make it aerodynamic, in that wind will move around it instead of through it. If the wind can pass through, the blades will be pulled from the back as well as being pushed from the front. And you've also mentioned welding which to me means steel, and probably stainless since we're talking about a boat. Steel means weight so I would also increase the width of the blades by a couple of inches to increase there torque potential. Now I've never had the opportunity to play with a generator like the one you're showing here, but the amount of force it takes to turn the shaft would concern me. I'm in the US so I'm not very familiar with the metric system, so I'm not sure if I converted this correctly. But it looks like the torque needed to rotate the generator shaft is 4.425 inch pounds or 0.3688 foot pounds which may seem a little high considering the RPMs needed to achieve it's rated voltage. VAWTs aren't known for high RPM, so the 560 RPM may not be possible as direct drive unless the generator shaft spins freely. I'll ponder on it a bit more and if I think of anything that might help, I'll share it with you.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:44 am

Hello my Friend,

The blade is powder coated Aluminium. I was trying to get the blades to become a post to the wind at speeds of 28 to 30 knots. That way, when there is a typhoon, the blades will never "over-spin" and thus NO break would be needed, but I have not succeeded in that area. It does stop and random wind speeds...

Although the Generator spins extremely easy, I am talking with a few other factories to get a similar unit but will have lower RPM's just as you said !

Have a Happy New Year ! Only 9 hours away for me (here in Hong Kong).

Alan
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:23 pm

Good morning or should I say good evening.
Powder coated aluminum is nice, I like that idea. I was once concerned about over spinning but not so much now. In my part of Texas along with Oklahoma and a few other states, we are in what they call "Tornado Alley". I've only seen a couple tornado's in my life time but I've seen a lot of major thunder storms, where the winds can be steady at 30 to 40 MPH with wind gusts jumping to 60 at times. If I used a brake on my VAWT at that speed, the wind would just rip it apart. But since it's a VAWT, you get the same amount of wind pressure on both sides of the turbine. One side gets moved with the wind while the other side has some resistance as it deflects the wind. So the way I see it, in very high winds, if the extra power produced by the VAWT is not needed, open the circuit and let it free spin.

Have a Happy, Safe and Prosperous New Year! You'll see it start a long time before I will. It's a bit after 8:00am here in Texas, so it's time to open my little shop. My day is just getting started.

Andrew


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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:52 am

Yep, I use to live in Kansas, Wichita, had family in Ok and in Tx. I saw to many tornado's lol. a standard wind generator would get ripped to shreds but a vawt might have a much better chance.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:14 pm

Hey Alan, have you ever posted video of your turbine on YouTube? I'd like to see it if you have.
It's probably a good thing I don't have a heliarc machine and the equipment to handle the lengths of the bends required for your turbine, or I would offer to play with it until I got it right. I have a tendency to obsess over things like that. It's great fun and that's how I learn.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:24 am

I've been tinkering with some upgrades. I bought Freedom II PMG which I compared to the voltage output of the previous two generators. And I also performed an upgrade to the Stealth VAWT itself to prepare it to run with the stouter generator and higher winds.



I'm not sure which takes longer; working on the projects or the video editing. lol!


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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:05 am

Very impressive results you have shown. are you planning on using a 12 or 24 volt battery bank to store the power? looking forward to the next video. catch ya later on SD.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:10 pm

Thanks SD, I'm planing to use a 24 volt system. And my little shop is the first place I need to try it since it's plugged into my home via a long heavy extension cord. I would like to move my old compressor out there were I can use it, but I'll need 220 power for short periods of time in order to keep the tank full of air. I'm also thinking of building a hybrid battery bank which will use both lead-acid and super capacitors. Capacitors charge much faster than their battery counterpart and release more quickly, but they will drain down on their own over a period of time. That's where the lead-acid batteries hold a charge for an extended period of time. Unfortunately cost is in the way and the only thing I can afford at this time is a new extension cord if I need it. LOL... But I can dream.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:08 pm

check with some of the golf courses that use golf carts. you can get the T-105 to T-145 batteries used from them for around 15.00 each and up. that would give you enough batteries to start up a decent bank to run a pure sign wave inverter. I got mine really cheap that way, for 1040amp hour bank cost me 240.00 then I got some of the T-145 batteries for 30.00 each, and worked my way up from there. I saved the T-105,T-125 for another project later on.
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PostSubject: Re: One Big idea and two smaller ones   Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:30 am

Thanks SD, that's an excellent idea!
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